Tuesday, September 29, 2020

Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

Hi,

I don't want a tool to manage dependencies for me because that means I may lose clients concerned with security.

I wrote a web app used by a couple of large banks. Each new release must pass extensive security tests before deploying. Code must be reviewed using SonarQube, dependencies must pass OWASP dependency checks and the test server must pass an OWASP ZAP (Zed Attack Proxy) attack.

If Maven or some other tool decides to update one of the selected jars used by my project, it can introduce a version marked as a high security risk. That's something I can't allow.

Maven can simplify dependency management, but it is a terrible security risk. 

FWIW, I use Apache ANT for building. It is "old" but works without changing project dependencies.

Regards,
Rodolfo


On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 5:57 AM lofid...@gmail.com <lofidewanto@gmail.com> wrote:
Ahh, I mean not only "Maven" just a build tool like Maven, Gradle, Buildr, Bazel, Ivy or whatever... 😉👍

The main thing we need to manage the dependencies and versions.

Just putting those Jar files in your project and only depends on IDE dependent plugins won't help in mid term, IMHO.

stock...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 29. September 2020 um 09:57:24 UTC+2:

Lofi,

https://github.com/pepstock-org/Charba is not using Maven and it's using Ivy.

Also I'm not using it for my applications. I had to use it for the Charba J2CL showcase where I'm leveraging on J2CL maven plugin.

Il giorno martedì 29 settembre 2020 alle 09:40:22 UTC+2 lofid...@gmail.com ha scritto:
Actually I don't see any Java apps should work without Maven:
  • Why won't you use Maven? At the end everyone has to manage dependencies / versions and today you need such a tool like Maven.
Yes, design patterns are language independent.

Did you use pdf.js? And this is actually a very important part of GWT / J2CL development. In such a case we should always offer an Open Source lib for JsInterop, just like DefinitelyTyped in TypeScript... I found a GWT project for pdf.js but it still using JSNI: https://github.com/pandurangpatil/gwt-pdfjs

I think, I'll open a GitHub project for the list of libraries for GWT, similar to DefinitelyTyped but only a link list...

As you said, if everyone support implementing JsInterop files for JavaScript libs it will be very easy for Java developers to use them and they don't need to write the JsInterop files for x times...

Thanks,
Lofi
rmr...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 29. September 2020 um 01:06:29 UTC+2:
Hello Lofi,

Some loose comments:

- Another great advantage I enjoy is that I don't need Maven. Can you rewrite your example _without_ depending on Maven? And without using a library that relies on annotations?

- VisualStudio code is great for Java and JavaScript. You can also use Eclipse with Java and JavaScript, but it is not as fast.

- Design patterns are language independent. You can use them with Java, TypeScript, C++ or whatever you like.

- Although there tons of libraries you can use on the server side, Java has limited options as a client in a browser. For example, in one of my projects I need to display a PDF in the browser and manipulate its text content depending on certain user actions; there aren't Java libraries that can work in the browser and are good enough for the task.

Regards,
Rodolfo


On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 7:09 PM lofid...@gmail.com <lofid...@gmail.com> wrote:
OK, now I understand you 😉

Yes, we always have to separate the Client and the Server part. This is also GWT best practice.

But if you are using JavaScript on browser you lose the advantages like:
  1. We use Java as the language
  2. We have the best ecosystem like libraries, frameworks, build system and IDEs.
  3. We know best design patterns to make our apps maintainable like Dependency Injection, Mock Testing and many other just take a look at: http://bit.ly/DesignPatternsJava
  4. … and if you use Java on the server-side with Spring Framework or JavaEE you have one language through the whole stack. So, you could reuse Validation APIs, Business Rules, Business Model, etc. from server to client.
I've built this sample project: https://github.com/gwtboot/domino-rest-enum-date to show some reuse for Client and Server and I plan to write more articles on this topic: Dependency Injection, Mocking Test, Validation API, Business Rules - all from Server to Client.

This type of reuse cannot be done if you are using JavaScript / TypeScript on the web browser...

Thanks,
Lofi
rmr...@gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 28. September 2020 um 23:20:23 UTC+2:
If the server part is a Java servlet that handles REST calls, there is no need for GWT at all. No need to deal with JSInterop and no need to deal with annotations, that's cleaner code!

If you have a server that exposes a REST API, you can write the client in anything. JavaScript is great in the browser and TypeScript improves the coding experience while sharing direct use of JavaScript libraries.

Running a Java client in the browser implies extra steps and complications. First and foremost, you can't mix Java and JavaScript libraries without wasting a lot of time with compatibility layers. That is, at least for me, the greatest advantage of using JavaScript in the browser. 

The number of libraries available for JavaScript outnumbers by orders of magnitude the available libraries you can use with Java in the browser. 

Java is a very useful language, but it's not the best one for writing code that runs in a web browser.

Regards,
Rodolfo





On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 5:55 PM lofid...@gmail.com <lofid...@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm not sure whether I follow you... what is the difference using Java / GWT + REST and TypeScript + REST... The server part is the same. The web browser part is also the same. The difference is only the language and ecosystem you use on the web browser...

Thanks,
Lofi

rmr...@gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 28. September 2020 um 18:02:03 UTC+2:
Hi Lofi,

I once used GWT + Electron + Materialize running with Jetty. That worked, but after getting rid of GWT the code was much cleaner. 

Class com.sun.net.httpserver.HttpServer is more than enough for running a Java server with REST interface on the desktop. 

Another advantage of moving away from GWT is that I don't need to work with JSInterop and things that require annotations in the Java code. Creating a REST servlet in plain Java is quite straightforward.

Regards,
Rodolfo



On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 12:46 PM lofid...@gmail.com <lofid...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Rodolfo,

thanks a lot for the feedbacks!

TypeScript is not bad. After all it's coming from Anders Helsjberg creator of Turbo Pascal, Delphi, VisualJ++, C#. He is a great language designer... 😉

But actually you could use GWT to build an Electron app as you don't need to have a Java server for the transpiled code... or did you have something extra?
@Frankhossfeld told me that he has done Electron app with GWT, very easy 😉 Maybe he could elaborate here...

I never use GXT but I've used GWTBootstrap3 (Open-Source) and actually it was very easy to use, quite the same with using the integrated GWT widgets. Today Dmitrii has migrated GWTBootstrap3 to Elemental2 (https://github.com/treblereel/gwtbootstrap3). And the cool thing is that for the app devs, it doesn't change anything. You could use the same components and nothing has changed, only deep in the framework itself it uses Elemental2 instead the older technology... Maybe @Dmitrii could elaborate this...  

Thanks,
Lofi



rmr...@gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 28. September 2020 um 12:36:03 UTC+2:
Hello Lofi,

Java + GWT + GXT + Eclipse was my main toolkit for over a decade. When Sencha went crazy with the price of license renewals, I started looking for alternatives.

Today my toolkit has changed to Java for backend/server side, TypeScript for client side and Visual Studio Code for code development. Communication between Java server and TypeScript UI is handled via REST interface.

Now I'm free to choose any UI style I like, my code has simplified a lot and there is a clearer separation between server and client code. There are no license costs and I don't have to deal with GWT and GXT, except for an old project I still have to maintain.

The switch to JavaScript/TypeScript gave me a huge advantage: now I can use ElectronJS to create cross-platform desktop apps that are actually web apps running on a local Java server.

I don't regret moving away from GWT + GXT. Actually, I'm quite happy with the refreshed coding experience.

Regards,
Rodolfo M. Raya


On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 4:02 PM lofid...@gmail.com <lofid...@gmail.com> wrote:
I would like to know, what are the obstacles for you as Java developers not using Java as programming language for writing Web browser apps. Web browser apps are client-side and not server-side Web apps. 
I would like to know from you... Java developers...

Thanks, Lofi


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http://www.maxprograms.com

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