Re: Teavm

there is an old group post that already discusses the byte-code vs. source code issue - maybe it is still helpful 

I think the http://www.gwtproject.org/makinggwtbetter.html page should be updated for GWT 3.0.

As I understood all the talks, info etc. about GWT 3.x (e.g. GWT-3.0-Sencha-GXT-and-the-future-of-the-widget-eco-system) we will lose some of the GWT 2.x benefits - please anybody correct my when I got things wrong

• "Key facilities out of the box: history, RPC, localization, and unit testing": History, RPC and localization will only be available as 3rd party add-ons
  
• "Discourage unoptimizable patterns": 
  
• the GWT compiler cannot optimize js-GUIs (Webcomponents, Polymer, ..) per browser: so we must always send all the css-prefix bloat and js for feature-detection, browser quirks etc. to the client (no matter which browser it is)
• code-splitting worked great for GWT-widgets - I don't see how this could work for js-widgets

I've always seen the biggest benefits of GWT like this:

• you can build fast, big, reliable, rock-solid web-apps
• you can get perfectly optimized js code - so that you can also build a great mobile-experience, where smallest code size (and minimal initial download size) is of most importance
  
• you can use the the same statically typed language (Java, or compile-to-Java languages, e.g. xtend) on the client/server (now even for Web/Android/iOS like Google Inbox)

On Wednesday, 2 December 2015 16:00:46 UTC+1, Thomas Broyer wrote:

On Wednesday, December 2, 2015 at 2:06:24 PM UTC+1, Adam M wrote:

Call me old school but for me direction in which GWT 3.0 is going is strange - if I'm forced to use HTML5/JavaScript libraries instead GWT widgets why I should do anything in Java in the first place - just grab Angular or Ember and be done - GWT doesn't help me too much with server side code anyway. The whole purpose of using GWT/GWTP was to avoid to deal with JavaScript, at least in my case.

You fooled yourself (but you're not alone). The whole purpose of GWT has always been about tooling: http://www.gwtproject.org/makinggwtbetter.html

Now that tooling is quite good in the JS world, GWT is turning to… tooling, still (because tooling for a statically-typed language is different from / can go farther than for a dynamically-typed one), and sharing code.

 

For me TeaVM has completely different approach to the problem than GWT - it allows language agnostic web application development (I never liked GWT no prisoners taken approach - Java or nothing - but as you know there was nothing better in "dark ages" of web application development)  - even that end result is very similar - JavaScript code running in the browser.

I wonder if something similar like Java Byte Code to JavaScript could be done with Microsoft CLI to JavScript (just wild shot - I'm not too familiar with the whole .Net infrastructure - different programming environment)

Not only can it be done, but has been done, many times, including by Microsoft themselves: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Live_Labs_Volta http://jscriptsuite.com/ http://jsil.org/ http://jsc.sourceforge.net/ https://github.com/Reactive-Extensions/IL2JS https://github.com/mtenpow/xaeios

BTW, there are / has been also many source-to-source compilers using C# as input: http://bridge.net/ http://duoco.de/ http://sharpkit.net/ and the pioneer of them all and now apparently defunct: https://github.com/nikhilk/scriptsharp

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