Wednesday, March 10, 2021

Re: New Article "10 Best Java Frameworks to Use in 2021"

On Tuesday, March 9, 2021 at 6:28:01 PM UTC+2 wrote:
On Tuesday, March 9, 2021 at 4:10:44 PM UTC+1 wrote:
@Thomas you didn't start a flame war it was just a flame, I got to learn few things from this conversation so why not flame the rest of the list? 

Really? Let's go.

Spring: I think the thing I dislike the most about Spring is what many people like about it: it's an entire, wide, and fat, ecosystem. You can hardly use one piece of Spring without using everything else; I mean, each Spring piece builds on top of another Spring piece, so it's basically an all-or-nothing. I also fear that people doing mostly Spring won't know how to do things without it (like most big/fat framework actually).

That does really summaries it about spring, also I hate how it is being overused for simple projects,  Like sucking this huge ecosystem just because we need dependency injection or want to talk to the database (JPA -> spring data) and it ends up building a huge complexity instead of simplifying things.. (Tests for example), I once want to contribute to a project that was using spring to find out that I had to inject a single bean into 500+ other classes using the constructor where even the arguments were not arranged to make this any easier and while doing that I had to fight merge conflicts .. it is overrated and overused .. and I pretty sure that most of spring project developer relay too much on mocking to make the tests faster or avoid such dependency injection hell.
I'm a no-framework guy; I think each library should be usable on its own (good for it if it provides adapters to make it easier to use within a particular framework, I won't care), and Spring is the exact opposite.

Not trying to advertise here, but I want to emphasize this point, I built dominoKit this way as each lib can actually be used alone then the only one that combines them as a framework is domino-mvp, this has proven to be a good decision in terms of adoption, development, and maintenance.


Maven: well, Maven is so utterly broken as a scalable build tool… They're finally talking about Maven 4 bringing breaking changes to the "build POM" (as opposed to the "deployed POM" you use from repositories), but as long as they'll keep that linear lifecycle, and project model being mutable (and mutated!) during build execution, it'll be a big no-go for me. If you need to learn one build tool, let it be Gradle, not Maven.
(fwiw, I'm migrating all projects at work from Maven to Gradle; I'm being asked to migrate them, because it makes things so much more usable and enjoyable!)

I am a maven guy who really wants to learn Gradle, I used it few times for very small projects, but something is blocking me from going deep not sure how to explain it, but I always feel confused when I am trying to do anything with Gradle, everything is explained in so many different ways that I no longer understand what is the right thing to do. recently started to study how to use Gradle to simulate my maven multi-level modules. didn't make much progress. I am using your GWT maven archetype-like structure which was a huge improvement for me, and would really love to see an example of how we achieve the same results with Gradle.

Mockito: well, most of the time, you shouldn't use mocks. If you need mocks, it generally says more about the structure and testability of your code than the readability of your tests. Of all mocking tools, indeed Mockito is likely the best, but it's the kind of tools you shouldn't be reaching for to being with.

IMHO tests should help you improve the design of your code, Mockito is the opposite of that, Once I converted some test cases to use manually writing test doubles (spies, fakes, stubs) instead of Mockito to show the other guy how it reduced the code in the test and improves the design. Mockito makes it super easy to look away from design issues.

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